Mac: Hey folks, welcome back to the Mac and Mike Show. I’m Mac and he’s Mike. And uh, near the twain shall meet, as they say frequently. Mike and I are going to talk about something — I don’t know, a little bit maybe it’s apparent to everybody, maybe it’s not important to most people — but I brought it up to Mike and he seemed accepting of talking about this topic.
The topic is: What is the value of political parties in today’s elections? Once upon a time, political parties ruled the roost, so to speak. The whole idea of smoke-filled back rooms was based on political parties making decisions about who was going to run and who wasn’t.
I think it was George Washington very early in our nation’s history who said to be very suspicious and careful of political organizations and party trappings. To be honest with you, I’ve been involved with the Republican Party locally in my district for 30 years — maybe longer, 40 years.
But this past primary election we just held in Pennsylvania — and many other states did primaries this past week — every one of the Donald Trump-backed candidates won their primary. Many of them ran against Republican incumbents. It didn’t matter. The Republican Party machine was behind the incumbents, but the challengers had Trump’s endorsement and they won.
As a matter of fact, Mitch McConnell — who once was the Republican leader of the U.S. Senate, the dinosaur of the Republican Party — was defeated in his primary by a candidate backed by Donald Trump.
I think at least from the Republican side, the Republican Party is now the party of Donald Trump rather than the generic Republican Party.
On the Democratic side, I’m seeing that the Democratic Party is having a very difficult time settling on and arriving at the right candidates for various positions. Their unwillingness or inability to line up enough support behind a single candidate seems to indicate a failure of the Democratic Party as well.
So the question I’m posing, Mike — and I’ll let you hop in here — is: On the Republican side, the party no longer seems to belong to the party but follows Donald Trump’s lead. On the Democratic side, because of a lack of true leaders, they’re having a hard time coalescing behind individual candidates. With this diffusion of multiple candidates, the Democrats are having a different problem, but it still points to a weakness in the Democratic Party, just like a different but serious weakness in the Republican Party.
What are your thoughts?
Mike: Well yeah, you were right about George Washington. It’s in his Farewell Address where he talked about the dangers of political parties, though he thought there was an open possibility it could work with the new Constitution. But he was still skeptical.
And I say that every day. You haven’t met my friend Richie, but you’ve talked online with him.
Mac: Mhm.
Mike: He’s a former Republican who now calls himself a disenfranchised Republican. He’s not a Democrat. He doesn’t care for the Democrat Party. He hates what he calls MAGA, which kind of lends itself to what you’re saying — Trump is now the head of almost a new party. Might as well call it MAGA instead of Republican.
Parties do change their names throughout history. Remember the Whigs? We all live on a graduated scale. We may be hardcore on some subjects but not on all — foreign policy, domestic policy, economy, social questions. People are scattered, and that’s why the fastest-growing party in America is the independent, unaffiliated voter.
A lot of people are choosing not to register with any party. The difficulty is you can’t vote in a primary in a lot of states like Pennsylvania.
Mac: Sure.
Mike: I’m a Republican, you’re a Republican. We just had the primary. I have to vote for the Republican hierarchy. Other states allow crossover voting, but then you risk Republicans voting for the worst Democrat candidate or vice versa.
I don’t know what an open primary would look like. They have it in California — the jungle primary, where the top two advance regardless of party. So theoretically two Republicans could end up running against each other for governor. Would a system like that work? Because now you’re just talking about two people with slightly different ideas.
I think it would be good to get rid of parties, but then you lose that consolidated power structure — the money and the organization. But that could be a good thing. You mentioned your friend John Ventry running for lieutenant governor here in Pennsylvania. He couldn’t get anywhere because he didn’t have the clout from the Republican Party. If there were no parties, maybe he would have stood a better chance.
Mac: I’m not advocating for getting rid of the parties. I don’t even know how you’d do that. I’m talking about the parties dying a slow death on their own — not being able to bring any real clout to elections, not being able to deliver grassroots support.
Nancy Pelosi once said the Republican Party isn’t grassroots — it’s astroturf, meaning they pay people to show up. That wasn’t true for Republicans, but it is for Democrats. Unions pay people to attend events. The SEIU, teachers unions — they’re very powerful and politically active. The head of the teachers union practically has an office in Democratic headquarters.
But in my local area, we have 27 precincts. That means 54 committee people. In the last primary, 15 of those 27 seats were vacant. Many had neither a committee man nor committee woman. That’s unheard of. It used to be prestigious. Now, people aren’t interested in playing the political game anymore.
If you multiply that across the state and country, the parties are losing the grassroots people who knock on doors, hand out literature, and work the polls. Candidates look to parties for two things: money and people. If they can’t get those, what good are the parties?
Mike: We saw that years ago when you and I were working for two different gubernatorial candidates in the Republican primary. My candidate was kind of flailing on his own without the party resources.
Mac: Yes, mine was the endorsed candidate.
Mike: I still think my guy was better, but that’s okay. Good men differ. One of my friends says he doesn’t vote by party — he votes against the other person.
Mac: I try to choose the best candidate. When I have a quandary, I default to the Republican because their platform is more closely aligned with my values — legal immigration, restrictions on abortion, different tax policies, etc.
Mac: But tactically, I’m asking: Do we still need political parties? They used to raise money for candidates. Now there are so many organizations and super PACs doing that. I get donation requests from candidates I’ve never heard of in other states. It’s overwhelming.
I finally unsubscribed from every single political email and text list. I don’t believe the politicians anymore.
Mike: They all lie.
Mac: How did we get here? Will the parties cease to exist when they no longer have power and influence? They still do, especially in funneling money for big races.
Mike: Could super PACs raise that kind of money on their own without the parties? That’s an interesting question.
Mac: And super PACs aren’t supposed to coordinate with candidates, though who knows.
The parties are fraying. Look at Kamala Harris — she never won a primary but became the nominee. That might have been the last gasp of organized party power.
Mike: A lot of Democrats who donated to her are disillusioned and say they’re done giving money.
Mac: My friend from Croatia thinks America should have coalition governments like other countries. In New York they have 18 or 20 parties.
Mike: Parties will probably degenerate into more local or state-based systems. In Pennsylvania, it’s very hard for new parties to get on the ballot — you need 60,000 votes or signatures. The two major parties keep the bar high to protect their stranglehold.
Mac: Money definitely influences elections. Name recognition and incumbency are huge. But if you don’t spend money, you don’t get known.
Mike: He who has the most money often wins. Is that any way to run a republic?
The conversation continues with discussion on campaign finance, foreign election systems, and the influence of money in politics, ending with:
Mac: Well, I guess it’s time to say the magic words. Rock and mic out.
Both: Out.
Recent Comments