In this episode, hosts Mac and Mike discuss the US-Israel alliance, sparked by a text exchange on why the US consistently supports Israel in Middle East conflicts. Mac questions whether this unwavering support is “righteous” or fair, emphasizing an “America First” approach, while Mike defends it based on shared democratic values, biblical ties, and strategic interests.
Key Historical and Biblical Context
- They explore Jerusalem’s significance to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, tracing back to Abraham’s covenant with God. Mike explains promises to Isaac (leading to Jewish claims) and Ishmael (Arab/Muslim descendants), including King David’s conquest and Muhammad’s night journey mythologizing the site.
- Discussion covers Israel’s 1949 formation post-WWII, facilitated by Britain and recognized first by the US. Mac highlights irony: Early Zionist groups, like those led by Menachem Begin, used “terrorist” tactics (bombings, attacks on British targets) similar to modern Palestinian groups like Hamas, though he notes October 7th’s atrocities were uniquely heinous.
- Biblical justification is critiqued: Mac references Ted Cruz citing Genesis (“I will bless those who bless you”) to Tucker Carlson, questioning if scripture should dictate US foreign policy.
US-Israel Relations and Criticisms
- Mac argues the US provides billions in aid and military support, enabling Israel’s survival, yet Israel has spied on the US (e.g., on Congress). He questions if allies should behave this way and if the US is too “fickle” or schizophrenic in policy (e.g., Obama/Biden’s Iran deals vs. Trump’s “America First”).
- Mike counters that spying is common among allies (e.g., UK, France on US), and Israel is a Western-style democracy amid non-democratic neighbors. He praises Israel’s ingenuity (e.g., modifying US F-16s, pager attacks on Hezbollah) and self-reliance, rooted in historical persecution.
- They debate unconditional support: Mac insists US interests come first, citing examples like depleted artillery shells sent to Ukraine instead. Mike says support should be case-by-case, noting Israel’s warnings to civilians before strikes (unlike Hamas) and evolution from Begin’s tactics.
Current Events and Future Implications
- October 7th is condemned as evil, with Mike linking it to Iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis). They discuss Israel’s recent strikes on Iran (post-2024 election, under Trump tacit approval), which neutralized nuclear threats and air defenses, potentially averting a regional arms race (e.g., Saudi Arabia seeking nukes).
- Abraham Accords are highlighted as promoting peace and economic ties, reducing US dependency on Israel as a sole foothold. Mac worries about nuclear escalation; Mike sees Israel’s actions as justified preemption, comparing Iranian threats to daily missile lobs.
- Broader concerns: High Palestinian support for Hamas (70%+ per polls), indoctrination of youth, and whether non-Abrahamic faiths (e.g., Buddhists) should care about Jerusalem.
Conclusion and Unresolved Question
The conversation ends without full agreement: Mac pushes for scrutinizing Israel’s actions (e.g., undeclared Iran war akin to Pearl Harbor from Iran’s view) and prioritizing US needs amid $37T debt. Mike can’t recall an unsupported Israeli policy but agrees on “America First” in principle, noting all nations have “rocky starts” (e.g., US vs. Britain). They wrap by acknowledging complexity, with potential for broader Middle East coalitions shifting dynamics.
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