Mack: Hey folks, welcome back to the Mac and Mike show. I’m Mack, he’s Mike, and Mike always hates it whenever I do the introduction like that. Anyways, I like it. We thought about what we were going to talk about this evening, and I put forward the idea that recently, over the past couple of weeks, the United States and Canada have been in ongoing trade talks involving tariffs.
Recently, those talks broke down. President Trump in his inimitable way and Carney from Canada in his understated, cold-fish way, both hurled insults at one another. What it amounts to is the United States is putting 50% tariffs on goods coming across the Canadian border. The trade between the US and Canada is about $60 billion annually, so when Trump decided to put 50% tariffs on Canadian goods, Canada decided to put 50% tariffs on American goods coming to Canada.
There is a long and deeply embedded series of ongoing trade between the United States and Canada. All of their shale oil and dirty sand oil comes south in a pipeline to our refineries. Now there’s 50% tariffs. Canadian whiskey that comes across the border? 50% tariffs. Our dairy goods that go up there, their electricity—Canada has this wonderful scheme where they make hydroelectric power from water, which is like free money.
But at any rate, Mike, there are multiple questions here. How can the United States and Canada find themselves in this argumentative position? Should there ever be a point in time when there is a trade war between us? And what is it that we couldn’t resolve? One of the things Carney said in his most recent speech is that Trump demanded French Canadians speak English whenever talking trade, which is ridiculous. As arrogant as Trump can be, I don’t think even he would ask that. Although, it’s interesting that he proposed changing the name of Lake Ontario to Lake America. What do you think about this whole kerfuffle?
Mike: I don’t know. On the lake thing, obviously, that’s just Trump being Trump, man. There are a lot of jokes on Facebook right now about that. Even the Babylon Bee came up with an entire map of the world renaming all the regions—like the Strait of Hormuz is our property now, and the Gulf of America instead of the Gulf of Mexico.
I don’t know as much about the particulars of the trade as you do. Obviously, Trump thinks there’s been unfair trade agreements. But I do know that Scott Bessent was saying, “Hey, we offered them a really, really good deal.” He’s not the guy out there spinning stuff like the “Gulf of America.” He said we offered a good trade deal and they walked away. That’s the kind of guy I trust. He seems pretty on the level.
Mack: In my opinion, Mike, there should never be a time when a trade problem stops us from doing business. For a long part of our history, there were no tariffs or barriers to trade. I understand why nations want written agreements and why they want to protect certain industries. Whatever the United States does, those jobs are an important factor. We want our auto workers and refinery workers to have jobs, so we are naturally resistant to deals that shift those family-supporting jobs to other nations.
But there is a rumor that Carney, who is a favorite son of the Davos World Economic Forum, is part of an orchestrated attempt to kick the stool out from underneath Donald Trump. When Trump speaks, it is oftentimes off-putting in the genteel arena of international conferences. Look what he did with NATO—telling them to pay their 2% or we might not protect them. It got their attention, and NATO ponied up. Are you concerned about the way Donald Trump speaks, or the results he gets?
Mike: You know, these guys are not very nice behind closed doors. Trump even says Xi Jinping is a tough negotiator, and he respects the negotiation. He says when it comes to negotiation, facts are facts.
Mack: Facts are facts, right? Personally, you might not like the way Trump talks, but professionally, does it get results?
Mike: Like I said, I had leaders in the military that I didn’t particularly respect personally, but on the level of leadership, I did. They got the damn job done, even if they weren’t always nice about it. That’s how I see Trump. Does he do crazy things, like wanting to move the towers on aircraft carriers? Yes, just leave the damn towers alone. But overall, I think he’s working for America’s best interests.
People complain that tariffs will increase the cost of products. That’s true, but you have to wait for the long-term effects, which means higher wages for American workers to level it out. The goal is to put Americans back to work. And if Bessent, who seems brilliant in that realm, says it’s out of balance, Trump is probably listening to him.
Mack: It’s great to have a guy fighting for America after being in terrible deals that exported jobs for decades.
Mike: Yeah. Think about NAFTA. Someone once explained it to me like water in a reservoir. America’s money and jobs were held up by a levee. As soon as you lowered it, America had to come down to increase the Mexican and Canadian economies. We hurt ourselves on purpose.
Mack: The other factor is inflation. When I first started driving, gas was 30 cents a gallon. The actual cost of getting oil hasn’t increased tenfold; it’s governed by inflation and our $40 trillion national debt. Recently, we propped up the yen with dollars because Japan holds a massive amount of our debt. If they sold our treasury bonds at a discount in an emergency, it would spike the interest rates we have to pay, which would be incredibly detrimental.
This inflation wasn’t caused by Trump; it was caused by the last six presidents mortgaging our future to pay for today. Very soon, our interest payments will be greater than our national defense budget. What Trump is trying to do with these trade imbalances is reduce our debt while creating jobs. He talks about it inarticulately, but if you look at his actions, he’s doing the right things.
Look at the new ballroom he’s building at the White House. He solicited private donations at no cost to taxpayers, and it secures state dinners so the Secret Service doesn’t have to scramble in public hotels. But people are mad just because Trump’s doing it and they don’t want him to get credit.
Mike: They’ll complain about the underground bunker too, but it’s halfway done. You can’t just stop and fill a billion-dollar hole back in.
Mack: Exactly. Looking at this trade deal, Canada’s economy is dwarfed by the US. They need us a hell of a lot more than we need them. This will end with Canada capitulating. The only major thing we genuinely need from them is the hydroelectric power feeding the Midwest, but even then, we’re just talking about paying more for it, not losing it entirely.
Every time Trump fights for tariffs, it creates or protects American jobs. Yes, consumers pay more in the short run, but the long-term benefit of reversing decades of offshoring is massive.
Mike: Since I started running the National Vets for Trump website, I’ve always said: if you remove the personality and stick to the policy, who can argue? Sometimes they’ll play a quote on TV and ask who said it, and you’d think it was Trump, but it was actually Obama or Chuck Schumer. They just changed their positions because it’s Donald Trump.
I was watching Key & Peele sketches from back when Obama was president. They had a great Obama impression defending deportations. Today it looks crazy, but back then, they were making fun of the people standing against Obama’s deportations. That’s why so many say, “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party, they left me.”
Mack: Right now, people are protesting Trump with these “No Kings” demonstrations because he uses executive orders, which is the exact same thing Obama did with his “pen and a phone.” The difference is the Right doesn’t complain, riot, and get upset the same way the Left does. The Right probably needs to learn to use more of the Left’s tactics to make their issues stand out.
Mike: Well, that’s what Trump is doing with his rhetoric. Look at the Tea Party compared to protests today. The Tea Party left the mall cleaner than they found it. Even after January 6th, nobody burned down buildings or looted stores. Left and right protests are very different.
Mack: Let’s face it, this trade deal will get done. But it seems to me the Canadian leadership is fronting for the World Economic Forum instead of the nation of Canada. If they were offered a good deal, why refuse it and then lie about Trump demanding they speak English?
Mike: It was probably just a requirement that the legal contracts be in English, and Carney exaggerated it into “they can only speak English.”
Mack: Exactly. They take a kernel of truth and extrapolate it.
Mike: It’s funny. You know, jokingly, Canada is called America’s hat…
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